Lizards vs Chaos Mortals

Via the City Guard forums I organised a game with Mike who is in New Zealand for his "summer break". Mike is one of these dashing and adventurous international teachers so we had much more to talk about than the game. He's just getting back into Fantasy after an extended break and using the GYB (Get You By) White Dwarf Chaos list and trying to learn the intricacies of the new rules proved to be more than a little challenging.

I took the Lizard list from previous games; the middle-of-the-road build that probably anyone could use effectively and get a good game with (case in point in fact, my game a while back vs Antony when he was using Lizards - very similar).

Mike had:

L4 sorcerer, 2 exalted champions on foot, L2 sorcerer, 2 fat Marauder blocks (25-strong), I think 17-18-strong Chaos Warriors (6 wide), same again but Chosen Warriors, 5 Knights, 3 Spawn.

I was confident going into the game despite only having played Chaos Mortals once (against Ray at Tin Soldiers - I suspect from what I've read that the old list was MUCH more difficult to face). Frankly it went my way from the get go with the Skinks shielding Krox and baiting chargers, other Skinks march-blocking the Knights and shooting up Spawn. The Cold One and Jag Vets both jumped all over another Spawn and got behind the Chaos lines. The big impact on the game though was the Steg hitting a Marauder block (static 5) and killing 8 or so of them (thanks to Portent of Far and rerolling 'ones'). They failed the break test and were run down, the Steg capturing the banner - the Chaos Warriors (Chosen!) next to them failed their panic check and ran through another Marauder block who also panicked. Next turn the Chosen rallied but the Marauders fled through the remaining Warriors (who fortunately passed their panic check) and off the board. The rallied Chosen were then charged by some Krox (through a Skink screen) and fled, failing to rally on their next turn but just stopping short of the board edge the turn after that. The remaining Chaos block charged some Skinks who fled and were run down but this left the Warriors free to be charged by both Krox units. Carnage ensued after I managed once again to get Portent of Far off on the Krox - rerolling ones when you are rolling 18 attacks at strength 7 is AWESOME. The Chaos Warriors took horrendous casualties and broke (ended up being outnumbered by fear-causers) and a Krox unit captured their banner.

While all this was going on the Steg, Slann, Priest and Saurus block (and 6 Skinks) were trying to figure out how to face down the Knights and accompanying L4 sorcerer. Mike solved the problem for me by charging the Saurus at long range. The Saurus fled and escaped (rallying next turn) leaving the Knights open for a charge by the Steg and Jag Vet. They couldn't flee because of the Skinks behind them (that and the Jag-Vet's 18" charge of course...) so took the charge from the Vet and Steg and were crushed mercilessly.

With the just rallied Chosen on the board edge the last Chaos unit surviving we called the game.

To be fair Mike is relearning the game and I've been getting in some good practice with the scaled ones so it was never looking promising for him for a win. It was more important that the game be used for learning purposes anyway and in this capacity I think Mike made some serious headway.

I recommended fitting in a BSB with Stubborn banner and looking at a fighty Lord instead of the L4 caster running with the Knights. Mike concurred and we resolved to get together later in the week for a night game with the proposed changes, this time Chaos vs Dwarfs.

Middle-of-the-road Lizardmen list and 2 games thus far

I've played a couple of games with this list and opinion from those in the know is that it's a fairly standard tournament Lizard list - nothing too hard or soft, nothing too extreme. Most common opinion is taking something out to fit in some Terradons (probably the mounted Scar-Vet).


The list

Slann - 4th gen, Plaque of tepok, Plaque of Protection, Banehead
Scar-Vet - Jag charm, LA, GW, Shield, Tzlatcotl (ItP)
Scar-Vet - Itzl, Quetzl, LA, Burning Blade, Enchanted Shield, Cold One
Skink Priest - Level 2, Diadem

10 Skinks
10 Skinks
10 Skinks
10 Skinks - Scouts
15 Saurus - Full Command

4 Kroxigor
4 Kroxigor

3 Salamanders
Stegadon



Game vs Antony's Dark Elves

The tables are turned and Antony gets to thrash me before I learn how to use the army (as per me thrashing him before he learnt how to use Dark Elves). I eked a win by a little over 200pts in this game and made some really stupid mistakes. Deployment was shot with the Steg out on a flank for no good reason, Saurus on the other flank waiting to be combo charged (which was what eventually happened), Krox traffic-jammed in the middle. Ant's Dragon-boss charged some Krox standing in front of the Slann, broke them and just failed to overrun into the Slann (who fled). The Krox also managed to rally which was fortunate. The Dragon-boss then took another 4 Krox in the flank who won combat by 1, broke the DE general (who rolled 10 for the break test) and ran him down after he only fled 7". Was a pretty awesome moment and I nearly brought the roof down with all my cheering. Meanwhile, Cold One Knights, a Chariot and a Steed-mounted Noble did for the Saurus and shortly after that the mounted Scar-Vet. The Jag-Vet was lost in a stupid move, dying to Repeater Bolt Thrower fire. 2 units of Skinks and the Steg did for the other flank taking out a Repeater Crossbow unit and Mage, Black Guard and the two Bolt Throwers, some Dark Riders and a unit of Shades (ninja Skinks!!!). A timely Comet of Cassendora from the Priest helped (nuking the Black Guard, RXB unit and a unit of Skinks!). Slann ended up in combat and left on half-wounds. A good game and I learnt a lot - especially about magic which as a Dwarf player is quite foreign to me!

Against Nick's Skaven... well we called it in turn 5 - a massacre win to me. Nick is still learning how to run the rats and constantly encounters enormous issues with leadership and panic. Case in point - the scouting unit of Skinks broke and ran down a 5-rat unit of Tunnellers (who opted not to tunnel), panicking a unit of Slaves and Gutter Runners, and the Gutter Runners ran through the Jezzails panicking them too! Fortunately the Jezzails and Gutter Runners rallied before leaving the table (they were eventually smashed by some very keen Kroxigor). The Seer and Warlock were bunkered in the Plaguemonks but after their protective Gutter Runner screen was shot to pieces and ran away they were forced to charge some Skinks due to Frenzy. The Skinks fled and the ensuing counter-charge by a full unit of Kroxigor and the Steg (!) butchered the Plaguemonks who were run down, signalling the collapse of the Skaven centre and the loss of their magic defense. Magic however was a damp squib all-round but one highlight was getting irresistable Walking Death off on some Krox making them cause Terror which caused a full unit of Clanrats to panic into some impassable terrain and splat themselves. The Jag-Vet was awesome - the 18" move meant fleeing units were often run down, unable to escape his awesomely long charge range.

In summary - Lizardmen are awesome fun to use. Magic is fickle but fun. Having a move of more than 6" is fun. Being march-blocked is NOT fun! Skirmishing Skinks are fun (less so after the new FAQ meaning it's much more difficult to redirect chargers).

I have a game against "Mike" lined up for Sunday. Mike's new to the club and getting back into Fantasy using a Chaos army. Hopefully I can give him a good game and convince him to stick around!

Also on the horizon is a game Sunday week against Tony's Daemons!!! Excitment! I'll be taking my Dwarfs for this so I can figure out how to face down the new kid on the Warhammer block. Tony's theory is that Dwarfs might just be the rock to the Daemons scissors. One can only hope! Word round WAU is that gunlines might be making a come-back with these new armies coming out and Dwarfs are amongst the best at bringing the pain at range. Tony is also a top player and I'm sure to learn more about the intricacies of Warhammer Fantasy. I'm not too opeful about getting a win but at least some of the advantages of his Daemon build (magic, shooting, leadership based modifiers) are somewhat capped by my slow movement (unbelievably an advantage as I can't be lured out to charge that far with the Siren Standard), magic resistance and ld10 from the general (meaning I'll be testing probably on 7s on three dice and taking the highest... great... :p). The tactic will have to be castle and make him come to me. It's all I've got against their superior mobility and the just silly amount of list synergy that Daemons enjoy.

New territory

Dave Grant came over last night and we managed two games.

First his dodgy Lizard build vs my Dwarfs. I was comprehensively smashed. Comprehensively.

Then we turned the tables and I used the Lizards. Having never used Lizards before I still managed to smash him (he was using my Dwarfs).


I really enjoyed:

Skirmishers
Magic
Kroxigor


Dave's dodgy Lizard list is:

Slann: BSB, Plaque of Dominion, Plaque of Tepok, Bane Head
Skink Hero : Mk Quetzl, Dagger of Sotek, Mk Old Ones (in Steg)
Skink Priest: Lvl 2, Mk Quetzl, Diadem of Power
10 Skinks: Mk Quetzl
10 Skinks: Mk Quetzl10 Skinks: Mk Quetzl
10 Skinks: Mk Quetzl10 Skinks: Mk Quetzl
3 Terradons
5 Kroxigor
3 Kroxigor
3 Kroxigor
Stegadon
Stegadon


It's a pretty nasty list - subtle as a brick but made much worse by virtue of the fact that Dave managed to roll up Unseen Lurker on the frog. I HATE Unseen Lurker. It is probably the best spell in the game - moreso on the Fat Toad.

Despite the fairly 'meh' outcome of each battle I learnt heaps about Dwarfs AND Lizards. Dave's a fast player but was able on occasion to reduce his speech to sub-light-speed and talk me through some decisions and finer tactical points making it a very worthwhile experience.

He has also generously lent me his army (!) so the next series of posts will be my experiences with Lizards vs a variety of opponents (with what is hopefully a more... balanced list). Antony's Naughty Elves on Wednesday afternoon, Nick's Rats on Wednesday night (I love being on holiday), whoever I can catch unawares at the club on Sunday, and hopefully someone else tomorrow night.

Next post should be a Lizardmen army list!

Rat rat rat RATTIES

So how did it go against Skaven then?

In all modesty... awesome.


Nick has a HUGE army - it's truly an epic horde of rats - and somewhat imposing to view from the other side of the battlefield. Keeping the pre-battle research in mind however I was able to funnel his units between 3 forests. The real turning points came at the end of my first turn (an early turning points I know, read on...) when a clanrat unit was joined by the Grey Seer, Warlock AND BSB. It was just too tempting a target! A grudegthrower shot and some Quarrellers managed to cause just enough casualties for a panic check and panic they did! Not only that but they then failed to rally (needing 7s - Seer's l6 + muso; Skaven can't count ranks for leadership tests when rallying) and left the board! 600 or so points gone just like that including all Nick's magic offense and the rerolls he would shortly need to hold in combat vs my blocks. As it was I managed to mostly hold off most of the Skaven army with the Hammerers and my artillery as they struggled to close the distance. On the other flank my characters bunkered in the Longbeards and took on the rest of the Skaven army with some Warriors and the exceedingly useful (and admittedly very annoying) Gyrocopter who flame-grilled rats by the dozen and march-blocked everything else. The Gyro itself took out most of a Gutter Runner unit and panicked the Giant Rats off the board. The Runesmith Rune of Challenged some Slaves (who fled, failed to rally and a couple of turns later were cross-fired by the Warriors before they could run off the board) and then solo charged the remaining Gutter Runners, holding them in place and blocking the following Clanrats until the Longebards got in, forcing the Clanrats to charge and seeing them off in short order.

It took AGES for Nick to grind through the stubborn Organ Gun and Grudgethrower crews.

The Miners were thrown away charging the Warp-Lightning Cannon (I was hoping it would fail to rally meaning it would flee back towards the closest board edge - through the Miners). They died single-handedly to an Assassin.

At the end I had two quarters, two banners and the skaven general and had lost the Grudgethrower and Organ Gun, the cannon (thanks to a misfire), the Miners, half the Runesmith and almost half the Hammerers. VP difference was 1744 or thereabouts.

I learnt that rats are soft but that static res counts for a lot and if my flanks were tagged I would probably be toast.

Nick learnt not to bunker all his characters in a Clanrat unit.


Rematch on Wednesday night, but unfortunately I won't be using Dwarfs... hehehe...

Ratties on Sunday then a game against Dwarfs with... Lizards?!

Nick's has his act together to the point where he can actually field his Skaven now (how he'll get them ready for Fields in time I don't know) so it's all on at the club this Sunday. My first game against Skaven and I'm not too proud to admit I've done a little research into how to not get smashed. Several gems like "Don't die" jumped right out but, at the risk of giving the game away should Nick read this, here's what I learned (all theoryhammer for me until I actually play the army of course!):


Numbers

This is potentially an issue for the Doofs. I'll be massively outnumbered and if I accidentally expose my flank I'm probably history. Skaven are more than likely going to receive the outnumbering bonus for combat and could easily cancel ranks and get the flank bonus by outmaneouvering me. They are heavily RELIANT on numbers because they suck hard in combat and my troops will beat them senseless without breaking a sweat. Numbers also means I have it all to do to cause panic checks from shooting. However, it is also something can be turned against them - the board edge only has so much room for deployment and a simple refused flank (classic Dwarf/small army strategy) can render almost 1/2 the Skaven army semi-obselete and reduced to contesting quarters because they are unable to find position. They have so many of their own units that traffic jams are a constant risk. Terrain is a great help here. Funnelling is a possibility. March-blocking will be essential.

Leadership

Ratties get some neat rules to help with their sucktastic leadership but at the end of the day they still have sucktastic leadership. Smack the general down and I'll have a distinct advantage. To that end I'll be targetting units away from the general's leadership and trying to take him down if the opportunity arises.

Inconsistency

Skaven shooting and magic can be outright deadly but one thing that is on my side is it's remarkable inconsistencies. I can't count this as an advantage as such but it's always possible that warp-lightning cannon will just blow up or shoot it's own troops. This is a bit like O&G Animosity - the random element makes them less reliable and this can only work in my favour.

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Lizards

Inspired by Dave Grant I'm now looking into the possibility of starting a Lizardmen army. To that end Dave's coming over on Sunday night for a game and has suggested I use his Lizardmen against my Dwarfs. It's a damn good suggestion! By playing against my own force I'm going to gain a better understanding of how it can be taken down. I also get some time playing Lizards :)